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>> jim tillman, i know you have to run, but the last information i think you said grasping at straws, did you not say that? >> yes, i did say that and mean it tonight even more. >> all right, when we come back, the australian prime minister says they are very confident they know the position of the black box within some kilometerinkilomete kilometers, meanwhile, they say the fifth ping is not related to an underwater beacon. i always say be the man with the plan

That when this ping starts radiating out it hits the temperature layer and then it can come back down. so you've got these things. so now you're dragging your pinger through here, the tpl, and from here to here, maybe seven minutes. from here to here, maybe it's five minutes. >> i see. >> okay. >> okay. >> so you may not necessarily be -- i got a lot of lines going up there. >> you do. you're going crazy. i don't know what to do with you. let me ask you about, how does the fifth ping, the fifth ping that they do say was a false start. how does that play into this? >> okay. >> is that a huge se...

Area because any chance of hearing the ping, you want it to be as pristine and quiet so nothing interferes with that. >> the fact that they heard a fifth ping, a false alarm, the fact that they haven't heard any since the first four, that would reinforce the notion that the batteries are most likely dead? >> it's also important that the false positive, the sonobuoy may have had a hit, that's fairly common in sonar work. you look at the accumulation of evidence and how things line up. they are doing it in the right way. >> your assessment is that by next monday, tuesday, wednesday, they send th...

Explain. >> this is a problem for the interception of a criminal investigation once it's on the way. a criminal investigation does not proceed in a straight line. it mir ree an ders. if you want to inspect the investigation and i understand why the media and relatives want to do that. what you have to be prepared for is the changes of a line. that happens in any criminal investigation. why wouldn't it happen in this one? >> is there any reason to believe that passengers should be under suspicion? >> i have no idea why they arrived at those conclusions but i have an idea why criminal investigat...

Fifth prince, deekted it by another. you're not surprised that the fifth ping, detected by another means, would turn out to be false? >> no, that one was -- get that one out of the mix. >> get rid of that one right away. so the big search is still on the surface. they haven't found any debris, anything from the cabin or any place else. but they're searching an area roughly, what, they say the side of new hampshire and vermont combined. but the search under water is tiny compared to that. that's where they're looking for what emanated those pings. >> that's correct. if they don't get a ping ove...