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To get there. murky water. talk about some of those challenges in terms of getting to the actual debris. >> well you've got to find it first of all. well they've done that you've got to find the main debris field, well, mary as elgabtegantly said you'll work backwards until you find it and then you go into the water and start searching. in 447, they found the debris field, they found where the fuselage was. but they still had several months before they could find the black boxes. because after, there was so much time had passed the there water any pings from the locators. which of course only ...

Activities finding the last-known location of the plane are very important. i think the 370 investigation really threw people off. and i think -- >> it changed our expectations really didn't it? >> it did. it made people question a lot of the things that had worked for us in the past. but you follow those protocols, you follow those procedures. you know where the last radar hit. where the last communication was. and what the crew might have communicated at the end. that will help you walk things back to be able to find where the aircraft could be and the best search pattern to look for. >> and...

Seabed. so they need equipment to detect those pieces of aircraft. also the black boxes. they could ask the u.s. for the toe pinger locater used for mh370. the ntsb monitoring the situation, but they're willing and ready to help if needed. >> rene marsh in washington thanks so much. our next guest, john know all about these sorts of investigations, they are both former heads of the national transportation safety board. jim hall and debra hersman joins us. deborah is now president of the national safety council. so glad both of you could join us unfortunately you have far too much expertise i...

Box send streaming data if there's a serious altitude or pitch adjustment. that's a question. why in an emergency, could the black boxes not stream data to authorities. >> the technology exists there's a huge debate in the aviation industry over exactly how it should move forward. what information you should send. how frequently you should send it. >> is it expensive? >> expense is one reason. that -- but that's not the only reason. with the sheer number of planes in the sky at the moment. there isn't the satellite capability, there isn't the bandwidth for all of these planes to be sending all...