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What do you make of -- >> well, let's take crystal's numbers, right? if you have 400 murders in new york city. you also have 8 million people living in a city. a quarter of them were black, a quarter of them hispanic, half of them, 4 million people. you cannot take the demography of a tiny criminal population and extrapolate that on to regular law abiding citizens who are doing nothing wrong and say that that is okay. what the city's argument basically is, is that the means justify the end. no matter what we do. no matter who it hurts, if our numbers at the end of the day come back lower than ...

Suspect they're in physical danger, they can then frisk the person, and they can get the weapon or anything that could harm them, they hold it, they continue the questioning, then they either give it back to the person or they arrest them. >> here is the problem. that all sounds like it's a great way to reduce crime until you start to break down the nmen numbers and it turns out nine out of ten people who were stopped and afrifrisked under t policy were african-american or hispanic. and isn't that where the judge said you can't isolate like this. >> this particular case was four minority indiv...

Compelling figure on the court to me. dom i want to go to you with this one. what have you learned about justice kennedy arguing before him? he's the decider, in so many ways he's sort of the heart of the court right now. >> he's our center vote. and the thing to keep in mind with him about the outcoming cases he's a big believer in individualialism. he doesn't think about people as members of the groups. same-sex case, may lead him to think of doma as a form of discrimination. but in affirmative action he's been very hostile to affirmative action, he doesn't think we should lump everybody tog...

Running over a black man who was middle aged, 47 or 48 years old, deliberately with their pick-up truck. and they would go into jackson, mississippi, specifically to find african-americans to attack. i mean, there is tremendous racism in the society. and we just continue to tolerate it, even in new york with the police -- melissa was talking about the sean bell case. but you have 600,000 instances a year of the police stopping people on the streets, in many cases, frisking them, humiliating them in public. 90% have done nothing at all and the vast majority are african-american or hispanic. >> ...

Are african-american or hispanic. how can we raise that level? >> there's a lot that we can do to raise that level. one of the things that we can do is support alternate route to certification programs where you bring professionals from other fields into education. you can also support academic programs like at colleges and universities, where you want to encourage more and more african-american men to participate in education. of course, any thoroughly funded programming like the one we talked about with secretary arne duncan will also help. >> yeah. i had no idea it was that low. principal p...