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Government. and now that these cards are electronic, these scams can be really widespread and they're really widespread. i don't believe the government fraud numbers. the government says only about 1% fraud. i don't believe that most of these federal subsidies programs is 10% fraud. is in the billions and billions of dollars. >> bill: if that's the case. if people can swipe a card showing a certain amount that's been paid, and then not -- that doesn't go for food that goes for drugs or alcohol, pocket -- obviously that's so simple you can do that transaction in, what, 35 seconds? >> right. >> ...

And now that these cards are electronic, these scams can be really widespread and they're really widespread. i don't believe the government fraud numbers. the government says only about 1% fraud. i don't believe that most of these federal subsidies programs is 10% fraud. is in the billions and billions of dollars. >> bill: if that's the case. if people can swipe a card showing a certain amount that's been paid, and then not -- that doesn't go for food that goes for drugs or alcohol, pocket -- obviously that's so simple you can do that transaction in, what, 35 seconds? >> right. >> bill: a bunc...

And now that these cards are electronic, these scams can be really widespread and they're really widespread. i don't believe the government fraud numbers. the government says only about 1% fraud. i don't believe that most of these federal subsidies programs is 10% fraud. is in the billions and billions of dollars. >> bill: if that's the case. if people can swipe a card showing a certain amount that's been paid, and then not -- that doesn't go for food that goes for drugs or alcohol, pocket -- obviously that's so simple you can do that transaction in, what, 35 seconds? >> right. >> bill: a bunc...