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At are the event as it's unfolding, at the moment that the use of force was taking place. and the perception of the individual involved in the event itself. what did they perceive their position to be presented as. that's the ultimate thing that i have to look at when i look at a use of force case and come down to the nuts and bolts of things. it's at the moment the force was used, given everything else, at that moment, the perception of that person that was using force, what was their perception at that given second. and how would that affect the outcome. >> okay. we talked about the flashlig...

>> let me ask you this. oprah is tonight, and nobody needs an excuse to watch oprah. everybody loves oprah. great first interview to have. later on in the week you've got howard stern. there are a lot of people who don't find him that interesting. he's got a remarkable following. but if somebody doesn't like somebody you're featuring, what are you going to do for them? for the viewer who says, i don't really care to hear howard stern interviewed? how are your interviews going to be different? >> well, i actually think there might be as big an audience for howard than oprah. he is sort of a rad...