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Testify. >> i think it's unlikely but i wouldn't totally rule it out. rachael knows this somewhat better than i do. it's a totally different ball game. they don't feel they're at a disadvantage. i think they see it as an opportunity to call a number of their own witnesses. i don't know if they can call whoever they want to. over the course of the three years, you've heard them say, i would love to do this but i can't because of xyz, but i think you'll see the white house bending on certain matters once this gets to the senate. >> i think the unpredictability of that is what makes it fascinatin...

Just minutes ago to put any real pressure on the royal family. >> reporter: and yes he got backup from his defense secretary, and said presidents often don't get to choose the other leaders they have to do difficult business with. kelly o'donnell, stay with me, we have a lot more to discuss. harry litman, abby and jess fantastic conversation. appreciate you being here. we have other thanksgiving news to get to -- other news to get to this thanksgiving morning, back with who's being called to testify and over what. stay with us. this is msnbc. o testify and ove. stay with us this is msnbc. yb...

>> yeah, alisyn, i think you are right that we still need to see today what some of the key senators say, like collins and flake about the prospect of having more investigation into o testify and also have more information be provided to the committee. that goes to the second point which is what more can we learn about what happened. are we just going to get brett kavanaugh's reading another version of his statement and christine ford reading another version of her statement, or are we going to get new information about what might have happened about some of the details around this event? one ...

>> if you're not guilty of a crime, what do you need immunity for. >> when you are given immunity that means you probably committed a crime. >> what he is asking go testify. go get it out there. what you have to do to get there and tell congress what you have been saying for a long time. >> chris: donald trump and michael flynn back in september when the issue was immunity for clinton aids and the email investigation. and sean spicer today when the issue was whether michael flynn should get immunity in the russia investigation. time to bring in our panel. danielle halper of "the new york post....

Immunity and testify, he is trying to send a signal, i'm not afraid of what you have to say. there's nothing -- typically get people immunity in order to -- the official investigating officers can get somebody higher up. who is higher than flynn if it's not the president so when the president says go ahead and talk, go ahead and sing he's showing a certain amount of bravado that there ain't nothing there and they repeat that had from the white house. sean spicer said you know what, he should go testify, go testify, michael flynn. maybe you're right they are trying to express confidence. >> dav...