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Point in there, which is that right now the interventionists, the hawks, the neoconservantive, the last few people who describe themselves openly as neoconservatives. they're in a panic mode. they accuse ted cruz of being an america firster. look at their ranks. marco rubio who's around 12%. they've got jeb, who's a dead fish at 5%. they're busy trying to pump up chris christie as a viable candidate in new hampshire just hoping for it. but basically, they're outnumbered by 2-1 in terms of public support for candidates right now. there isn't a very strong appetite for interventionism. that's re...

Including rubio. back in 2010. so it's -- the establishment is completely discredited in this election. >> i guess i wonder real fast just in terms of anybody's exit from the race can shape anything setting aside donald trump. is there someone in the middle tier of candidates do you think that can reshape the race by leaving? >> i think it would probably reshape the race if jeb left. there's obviously -- those people would probably all go to rubio. and you know, rubio getting a 6% bounce at this point -- >> or whatever jeb is polling at that point. >> and i think even more importantly the mone...

They accuse ted cruz of being an america firster. look at their ranks. marco rubio who's around 12%. they've got jeb, who's a dead fish at 5%. they're busy trying to pump up chris christie as a viable candidate in new hampshire just hoping for it. but basically, they're outnumbered by 2-1 in terms of public support for candidates right now. there isn't a very strong appetite for interventionism. that's really interesting. >> well, lindsey graham's campaign suggested he's getting out so his supporters will flock to other establishment candidates. and i guess i wonder, does this have any effect ...

>> no. we're through talking before this debate tonight. >> as i mentioned, since tom dewey in 1948 you've been voting republican. >> ever since. >> so when you look at some of these ads and even jeb bush has been attacking donald trump for essentially being a democrat in republican's clothing, who do you think seems like the most republican republican jeb bush aside? >> you know, we've got some pretty good -- i'm a carly fan. >> you like carly fiorina. >> oh, yeah. >> what do you like about her? >> well, she's smart, and she's had experience. she's -- >> kind of sassy. >> she didn't have any ...

Historically won the republican nomination. you saw that with bob dole or john mccain, or mitt romney. it's often the establishment choice that makes it through. i think the question is going to be, how much has the landscape changed? especially in some early states. i was just in south carolina, talked to sources on the ground who were paying attention to jeb bush's speech. they're saying, it's possible this state isn't the same state that cent george bush over the hurdle against john mccain . that could be a problem for bush in the long run. >> michelle, what do you think about that and what...