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That's the charisma that doesn't come from being a holy father but some have great, great charisma. >> it doesn't come with political power or wealth. society measures success by that or influence by that. what is his hallmark? his humilithumility. sincerity. it's being himself, a messenger of jesus christ. that's who he is. that is so refreshing because we don't see that in society today. we see power and money and influence. we don't see simple humble people. but you know what, brian? the people of the united states see it even if the rest of us don't see it. that's why he's special like joh...

Interesting. i want to have meacham jump in. do you remember roberts and obama as students? >> obama was my main research assistant for three years so he was unforgettable. i remember b he was brilliant but he didn't do any research for me. he was in a large class. i didn't get to know him as well. i certainly remember him. >> obvious question. when you saw obama back there, were you like, this is presidential timber? >> i didn't see any limit to what he could achieve. i had no idea that it would be the presidency. i thought that this was a guy of enormous brilliance, ambition. he saw all side...

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