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The employers side of the payroll tax is passed on to workers. to get back to kevin's point, this isn't a job creations bill. what kevin is talking about is long term supply side and growth effect. we've got 25 million underemployed americans and you're not going to see a change in the unemployment rate because of this. we have a huge aggregate demand problem and the economy is running a trillion dollars below potential aeliminating taxes on capital gains isn't going to change that next year. you're not going to see any noticeable employment gains in the next year or two. we don't need jobs a ...

Easy questions. is that a good idea? >> well, if you think that it is vital that the deficit not go up more than expected, yes, it is a good idea. but there is very good reason to think deficit will go up more than expected. there's pushback. we heard some of it in the last hour. grover norquist, people like that complaining. and there's one wild card that has been thrown into this equation today. that the joint committee on taxation, the official score keeper of congress, which the republican leadership wanted to without their estimates, they have told democrats that they are racing to provid...

Effect. this is how he answered. >> i think it makes no sense, and people who quote that, i think, are living in the stone ages. we're about creating economic growth. we're about broadening the base and we are going to make sure that this is tax reform, not just tax cuts and that they're paid for. david: steve, i love it. he says they're living in a stone age if they don't believe there's a growth effect. >> absolutely, david. the key thing is, for those who obsess about this stuff. the key is to have we the people to grow faster than government. even if you have more spending over that time i...

>> it's a great plan. it's going to put people back to work. >> i find it fascinating that blowing this gigantic hole in the debt is not an issue anymore. >> he is the king of debt, and now we're seeing it in realtime. >> t >> the people who will get a gigantic tax cut are corporations and very wealthy people, people like donald trump. >> will the president release his tax returns -- >> the president has no intention. the president has released plenty of information. >> ha! boy, has he got his talking points down, doesn't he? >> this will pay for itself with growth. >> no tax cut has ever paid...

I'm surprised it didn't come on a napkin at this point. >> we will let you know the specific details at the appropriate moment. >> one could argue the roll-out of the plan was supposed to be the appropriate moment that you would have some of these details. >> it's a great plan. it's going to put people back to work. >> i find it fascinating that blowing this gigantic hole in the debt is not an issue anymore. >> he is the king of debt, and now we're seeing it in realtime. >> the people who will get a gigantic tax cut are corporations and very wealthy people, people like donald trump. >> will th...