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Thursday that surprised you? did this first hearing meter expectations? >> two things surprised me. the first was this thing about republican members of congress asking for presidential pardons for their roles on january 6th. inter is no way around these pardons. you don't think you're innocent, and then asked for a pardon. you ask for a pardon because you have a guilty conscience. the fact that they named scott perry the current chair of the house -- they have a lot of evidence to back that up. that is not something -- former u.s. attorney who is now the chief counselor on the committee will ...

The party of law and order, this is a party that spent decades stressing that they were strong about terrorism, but who are the terrorists now? what is the threat? and i think what you saw yesterday was a tremendous reluctance to even acknowledge that this -- the reality of domestic terrorism and a certain, i don't know, maybe a guilty consciousness that if they took an aggressive position on this, that it might ensnare some of their allies and they might be held accountable for some of their own rhetoric. >> yeah, their guilty conscience was showing. eddie and charlie, stick around. lie, .

To do it. because it's evidence of guilty conscience and corrupt intent. if the president, ex president, thought when he was doing was legit, he could've called the dhs himself, he was the president, but he knew, he knew seizing the voting machines was lawless possibly criminal. something had no authority to, so he sent rudy. go safe he can take care of that? his personal lawyer to take care of the dirty work. and while giuliani made the call even giuliani had his limits short of what trump swear. quote, mr. giuliani was vehemently opposed to the idea of the military taking part in the seizing...

Of the country is in charge of. the department of homeland security reports to him, he's the president. but he did want to make the call himself. how. his we are despite the sense about what could be in line with criminal liability appears to -- there is a concept called the errand boy. someone who runs the money. so the bus can keep his hands clean. and trump appears to have realized that he needed a fall guy to do his dirty work for him. so he turned to rudy giuliani, the same bag man he used in ukraine. the guy who got him impeached the first time while he was trying to dig up dirt on the b...

In the 70s, there were these urban legends, you know, child raised by wolves, right? never acculturated to human ways, so they're a little off, right? and we've seen this with the trump family, not just donald trump, but his kids. like they weren't raced with the law. you can't expect law-abiding, since they were raised as criminals. it's almost like it's a disability they have or something like that. >> and this is, again, this is defense time and time again. if the combination of the brazenness, and the fact that you can't expect them to have normally -- but again, to me, we have lots of evi...