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Of him? let's just link arms with him. what does that say about the conservative movement? >> i think you've got two parts. the one is there might be something kooky about this guy. let's link arms with him. i think the linking arms is the first part of this is the general argument, the principled idea that is talked about or espoused in this case. you know, is the government right to do what it was doing with respect to the land that was in dispute, the use of the land over the last 0 years and all of that. >> i didn't even get that part of it, michael. we still decent even know what the real...

Staff who ghost wrote his book. rand paul seems has been down this road before and keeps going down this road. this is a guy who is one of the top contenders for your party's nomination. are you worried given this history? >> no, i'm not worried about in this sense. i mean look, i don't think there was knowledge of forethought what mr. bundy thought about these issues and certainly bringing martin luther king in it is the height of ignorance as if martin luther king would be standing side by side with him on this point. i can't speak to it and i don't think that rand paul or sean or any one el...

Until they are not. and that's the situation here. look, you know, there is conservatism that is about individual opportunities and freedoms and then there's what this guy apparently -- i don't even call this conservatism. this is not what the conservatism or the party is about from my standpoint. somehow we wrap our arms around it and it always comes back to bite in a very important way. and i think leaders like rand paul and others need to be much more careful and smarter about how you articulate these principles and how you allow people to attach them and adopt them that distort the underly...

And his rights to you know, to be the rancher and defend his property when in fact legally he was wrong. >> right. that's it. i wonder if somebody like rand paul is going to sit back and say why does this keep happening? let's listen to that. >> the issue with clive bundy has absolutely nothing to do with this party. zero. he is a rancher that had a beef with the federal government's continued overreach and suddenly this became a question when he made inappropriate comments about what every republican needs to answer for. that is ridiculous. >> jonathan, what do you make of that? it's not like...

Willing to make them into folk hero, whether it's bundy or ted nugent or even the rodeo clown with the obama mask before them? these people seem to find a comfortable home on the political right, there's until they go one step too far. the former chair of the republican national committee. jonathan capehart, both are msnbc contributors. i'll start with you. i guess the question of this whole saga raises for me is the republican party, the conservative movement. is what does it say to you that so many prominent conservatives. sean hannity, rand paul, we're talking about big names here. what doe...