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With every one of the secretary ls. we think we're in good shape. we have an open dialogue. we don't win every argument, but we get our word in on every argument. >> is it less friendly now than it was in the beginning of the term with the new people? i know from the history, sir. i covered the labor movement back in the-and-a-half that days. i know there was a lot of tension back then. is there peace now or still suspicion? >> i think we have a good working relationship. we worked with the cabinet secretaries. we have a great working relationship with hilda scalise. we work with everybody. it...

Sheets down. >> kelly, you're in the trenches and talked about people with small businesses and what do you see? i see a glimmer of white on the horizon. i wouldn't call it optimism yet but i think some confidence is starting to emerge and i'm hearing from vendors that come in and speak to me about colleagues in the business and our business has picked up a little bit. we're actually hiring an employee back from layoff. >> what is this going to take? as much a psychological things as anything else. you might have cash in the bank that you're willing to spend but one is holding on to it just in...