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It is largely untouched. ecuador has done a commendable job of trying to limit the human visit numbers and keep the island pristine. this island in particular i'm one of the first people to step foot on it in about a year and a half. we went to visit the floriana mocking bird. there's about 90 left in the world. it has a lot to do with human encroachment and the things we bring with us like rats and feral cats and the steps they are taking to save this one species are mind-blowing. i had no idea the stories i would find but those along with the stunning visuals, the animals, i really hope you ...

Conciliatory, issue oriented. they don't want people that have staffs that are running amuck. >> rogue. >> and there was an arrogance of power. and i think what the -- what i would be most concerned with governor christie and his administration would be was there any damage by having shut down the bridge. was the little kid going to a doctor. is there permanent damage there. or some transportation issues and other human issues. >> okay. >> that's the essence of government. how you attract and deal with people. >> okay. well, stay here. next, the final question for both of our guests. we also w...

Maker and are you surprised that it got to that? >> i am. i have to say, though, i think there's -- this is an example of where grassroots pressure did make a difference. i mean, at the end of the day, this is about human -- the human issues of children being killed, parents being mortified by what happened, and saying we have to change what's at play. this is exactly what we see happening with immigration. you see the grassroots pressure of everyday people saying enough is enough, something's got to change here. >> you disagree on the grassroots side? >> i don't think so at all, i think it's ...

Maker and are you surprised that it got to that? >> i am. i have to say, though, i think there's -- this is an example of where grassroots pressure did make a difference. i mean, at the end of the day, this is about human -- the human issues of children being killed, parents being mortified by what happened, and saying we have to change what's at play. this is exactly what we see happening with immigration. you see the grassroots pressure of everyday people saying enough is enough, something's got to change here. >> you disagree on the grassroots side? >> i don't think so at all, i think it's ...

Revenue side. the second thing which has to be done is that you have to have an infrastructure of very smart people around you, both on the technical side as well as on the human resources side. and quite frankly, we in this business, we focus so much on the financial side that sometimes we dismiss the fact that there is a human side as well. so you have to have someone on that team who, when you're digging deeply into the financial issues, who can say okay, but what about the human issues and how do those financial decisions impact people at every level. then the third thing you have to do is...