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Double game where they're punishing south korea while simultaneously still cooperating with the north koreans and we just have to say to them, look, cut it off, all economic activity, or else unfortunately, it's going to lead to an escalation in the tensions in the region and we have to say to the chinese, our goal is not to decappy tate north korea. our goal is not to collapse their economy. our goal is to bring them to the table so that we can freeze the ballistic missile and hydrogen bomb program and that's something that russians and chinese should want but they're going to have to square ...

Guarantee at all -- maybe we can get a result which is positive. we haven't been able to do it in the path but it's our best shot at accomplishing that goal. >> do you agree with the president that now is not the time to talk to north korea directly? >> well, if he says to the chinese that he's never going to talk to the north koreans directly, then that will be a non-starter for the chinese. they want that. they also want there to be an agreement in terms of the magnitude of the american military maneuverers in the south that could be aimed or interpreted as lead to go a decap tation of the n...