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Get a metric that can define border security, and then secondly, what do we do with the path to citizenship for the 11, 12 -- >> i would agree. i wouldn't say everybody agrees. the vast majority agree on high-skilled, but you're right, the path to citizenship is a problem. not just the tech community, the business community is rallying not just for high-skilled immigration reform but comprehensive immigration reform. the reason is partly they think it's the right thing to do, and there are a lot of businesses, part of the business roundtable with the meeting at the white house last week with t...

Comprehensive immigration reform. the lead individual is out of los angeles, who's been phenomenal talking about civil rights, legal protections, making sure we don't abuse workers who are here, don't displace workers also. but also make sure the ones who are here who are undocumented have a clear pathway and it's legitimate and employers are held and accountable to that. >> most americans don't understand and don't have a recollection about what the program created. >> explain that. >> it was a guest worker program that brought in millions of worker, primarily from mexico. >> this is the '50s...

We've seen fewer people coming into the country illegally, and i think if we can separate out those who want to come for legitimate reasons and those who come for criminal reasons and alleviate that pressure at the border, i think that we are well on our way to an effective immigration solution. >> stephanie, you're in politics, and i cover politics. you know the politics of this. it needs to have both sides to it. if people can still come in the country tomorrow and there's no real work permit that's effective like you have in every other country in the world, including mexico, where you have...

You believe that means it's going to work? >> i think that it's definitely a sign of positive things to come. i mean, the devil is always in the details and, yes, enforcement is being tied in this bill to the pathway to citizenship, but you have to remember, too, there are a lot of moving parts to immigration, and you touch one piece of it, and you have to work and tinker with other parts of it, and i think ultimately with the stepped up enforcement, we have seen stepped up enforcement in the last four years, we have seen much tighter border security. we've seen fewer people coming into the co...

A sign of positive things to come. i mean, the devil is always in the details and, yes, enforcement is being tied in this bill to the pathway to citizenship, but you have to remember, too, there are a lot of moving parts to immigration, and you touch one piece of it, and you have to work and tinker with other parts of it, and i think ultimately with the stepped up enforcement, we have seen stepped up enforcement in the last four years, we have seen much tighter border security. we've seen fewer people coming into the country illegally, and i think if we can separate out those who want to come ...