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Misdemeanor out of going to the courts, it is an abuse of power. it's your abuse of power. you are doing precisely what you're criticizing the president for doing. we have a third branch that deals with conflicts of the other two branches. and what comes out of there and what you do with it is the very definition of legitimacy. >> let's continue, the impact of what you're talking about. the mcdonald case, was that a split court? were they really torn about that? that case came out how? >> conveyeah, it came out unani so do cases i cite in my testimony that also refute these criminal theories. ...

Voting for impeachment. >> congressman, how about you? from all the public testimony that you heard laid out, as well as the transcript -- partial transcript -- of the phone call. do you think that it has risen to an impeachment level? >> yeah, i do. i do think it has risen to an impeachment level. and i try to look at this in the per expe perspective. if this were a democrat in the same conduct, do i think republicans would be calling for impeachment? absolutely. i mean, i think this just speaks to the tribal nature of politics. people just cannot -- they just can't accept the fact their guy ...

Public -- i don't know if actually that matters anymore. >> it's like -- i'm sorry. >> if we had known, if the american people had known during the campaign that the man running for president while russia was busy hacking into hillary clinton's e-mails and doing other things that we learned more about after the election, of course, was also aggressively, eagerly trying to do business in russia, i think they would have found it sail yen -- salient. and i think your question about whether it all amounts to a crime is an interesting question and an important question but not the only question. be...

Two levels, one is the technical criminal statute that's involved, the other is an impeachment level. the criminal statute requires a corrupt intent, it requires a pending proceeding and we don't know if any of those facts are met by the current situation. the impeachment proceeding however, is much looser and a president can be charged without having that intent, being particularly evident. and there's much more latitude when you get into a particular offense. >> john, how big of a deal that this is now an investigation before a special prosecute does that up the anti? >> it does. it's a big ...