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Direction, congress must. cass, you are not -- i think your reputation is not as a kind of like fire-breathing radical. i think your temperament is fairly moderate in temperament and judicious. but you seem to come down on the impeachment side here. why? >> well, impeachment side with respect to congress' obligations not necessarily with respect to any particular president. so it's probably good to go step by step and look at the issues with a degree of solemnity and not in a partisan way. so if you go back to the sounding, the idea of impeachment was essential to us having a constitution at a...

>> absolutely, and of course think about the two parallel tracks here, don. you've got the criminal implications if he's implicated in an actual crime. you have the political considerations that don't have to follow and track the definitions that we have in the code of criminal law about what's a high crime and misdemeanor, for example, so on the impeachment side, remember the guideline, that's the important thing, the guidance that's been issued has not been set in stone, and certainly the balancing test that would go in favor of figuring out whether that should actually be the case, whether ...

Trump's consistent seeming desire to rid himself of mueller. he obviously fired james comey, jared kushner and others rooting him on to do that. he can't outright fire mueller. he can't get the attorney general do it. he's recused, have to get the acting attorney general, rosenstein, said he won't do it. you now have members of congress. a republican resolution put forward by three members of congress pub lirred friday introducing resolution demanding robert mueller resign on his own based on a completely phantom scandal, uranium 1 scandal. rying to get rid of him. rumors advising donald trump...

To the big kahuna. >> and that of course is the president of the united states. and liz bet, thelizabeth, that k to trump's consistent desire to get rid of mueller. he ultimately fired james comey. he can't outright fire mueller. he would have to get the deputy attorney general to do it who said he one of the. you now have members of congress introducingdema demanding that robert mueller resign on his own based on this. there are human rule others that steve bannon is encouraging trump to defund mueller's investigation. can any of these attempts be seen on the impeachment side or in a legal se...

Nepotism. it draws people close because of this comfort factor, but it almost always results in great vulnerability and often great damage. what do you think? the last notorious pardoning was president clinton pardoning -- what do you think about trump saying i'm going to pardon these people preemptively? >> he can. one of the greatest abuses back then was when bill clinton pardoned his own brother, which was outrageous. the problem is that if you push down on the criminal side, it tends to push up political issues on the impeachment side. actually, trump would be much better fighting on the c...