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>> that's the standard. people think conflict of law sounds legal, it isn't. it's an ethical standard which means you have multiple interests and semblance of improprie impropriety, the smell test. >> the other thing that is interesting here and i was talking to somebody who was close to daunld truonald trump this is protecting his children. he can take the scrutiny and he understands where he has freedom legally under these conflict of interest laws, but he dozen want his kids to be dragged through the mud for the next four years. hard to see how you do that under this current situation. that...

Exposing yourself and making yourself vulnerable to improprie impropriety. >> the thing about it is he bragged about not apologizing, even to his wife on the debate stage. >> it's true. >> it had to embarrass her to some degree for it to be out there. not only that, he talked about changing the libel laws so he can sue journalists for writing bad stories on him. then we continue and he threatens to sue the women who have come forward. i mean, all of these things add up to really the character of this person who is running for president. >> what is the rebuttal? >> the rebuttal is very clear. 3...

Precedent about the appearance of impropriety. that is to say not only the idea that laws are being bought, but that it's a problem for our democracy if the citizenry thinks there's an appearance of improprie impropriety. this would seem to be exactly an example of that, whether or not you can prove it's a quid pro quo, there's obviously a stampede to go at internet gambling in a way many republican officials simply haven't ever cared about previously. >> yeah, absolutely. i think it's a perfect test case for how big money can influence politics. usually it's much more invisible. when the koch...

emerges, or was there prior to that departure, you would have a different piece. but there's quite a -- that's an important point just to be clear about. >> my final question is it seems to me on the face of it that the news of the world was sacrificed in order to try to protect rebekah brooks' position at news international. in effect, rather than her being -- having her departure being announced, "the news of the world" was offered up as an alternative to try to deal with the whole thing. do you regret now making that decision? do you regret closing "the news of the world" to try a...