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Little desperate. that is searching for what does he do next, and frankly, i think his avenues for exit have begun closing down. >> you're calling it -- you said he's facing the greatest threat of his power in decades. >> i have said that, and the reason i say that is that we haven't seen this yet in russia is i've seen the little clips of russians on the street saying they trust putin. he wouldn't do this. that's not happening in ukraine. but i do believe that in today's information environment, it's impossible really to for long wall off a country of 150 million people, particularly today. p...

Dumb, certainly. another thing that many of us and i know yourself as well have been watching is how the russian public is reacting to this. we have to grant it's a largely closed information environment. they don't see the facts, certainly on russian media. so much chased out of the country, the few independent outlets remaining. independent pollster which has had some accuracy in terms of measuring russian public opinion in the past and it shows that putin's support is actually increased since the start of the invasion and i wonder how you read those numbers. do you believe that's an accurat...

Their appetite grows in terms of territories, so, those appetites keep growing, and then you are surrounding keep saying believe me now is the time to take this step that surrounding usually create some kind of information bubble around the leader. now you live in that information environment that they created for you. when you begin to live in such a world. then you get such information and undertake such solutions which are terrible. not civilized. not democratic but some kind of authoritarian that's how they took crimea. they took away our donbas and now they want to take more of our territ...

Frozen because of the previous sanctions, and rubles would be illegal. and that's the end of the story for this regime. >> you have joined ukraine's forces, its territorial defense forces in ukraine, something of a citizens army here, and part of your role there as you explained to us is it try to get accurate information about this war into russia. the fact is, though, russia is increasingly a closed information environment. at least the public polling there shows that russians largely support this war, even more so than when it began. i wonder, is it possible to pierce that bubble in any gre...

The iron curtain in the information space through new laws and legislation. for example, we know that russian citizens can face up to 15 years in prison for speaking out against war. but also part of this information bubble is the propaganda that the kremlin is pushing, that bubble, this language about de-nazification of the ukrainian society, this narrative that it is russia who is at risk. that this is an existential threat to russians. that kind of propaganda is also extremely difficult to permeate. so, now, i think that imperative is on the united states and its european allies to find cre...