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Volker said he saw no quid pro quo. the white house came out swinging: both transcripts released today show there was less evidence for this impeachment sham than previously thought. volker and sonland thought it was inappropriate and the goal post of what rudy giuliani asked the ukraine for kept moving and they said rudy giuliani participation was requested by the ukraine. they wanted to get across their message of being different from the past. that information flow would reach the president. the committee is investigating impeachment now want another

Happened the night ben laden went down. what do you take from this? >> well, i think part of this speaks very much to the sort of sham bollic disorganized insufficient way in which donald trump thinks he can manage the white house from his twitter feed. a great chief of staff is a value proposition that every president who is serious about the work understanding. whether they're a republican or democrat, presidents who have been well served by chiefs of staff can weather crises, can get through problems. they don't think they're playing 87 dimensional chess. they recognize this is an undertaki...

>> well, i think part of this speaks very much to the sort of shambolic, disorganized, insufficient way in which donald trump thinks he can manage the white house from his twitter feed. a great chief of staff is a value proposition that every president who is serious about the work understands. and whether they're a republican or a democrat, presidents who have been well served by chiefs of staff can weather crises, can get through problems. you know, they don't think that they're playing 87 dimensional chess. they recognize this is a large, complex undertaking that has a lot of diverse and co...

Or a democrat, presidents who have been well served by chiefs of staff can weather crises, can get through problems. you know, they don't think that they're playing 87 dimensional chess. they recognize this is a large, complex undertaking that has a lot of diverse and complicated moving parts all at one time. and good chiefs of staff, as you mentioned, andy card, matt mcclardy, james baker. there are plenty of examples throughout history of chiefs of staff who understood how to handle both the president's needs and the information flow. they're almost at the very highest level of security clea...

Decision that obstruction is a better strategy than cooperation. why? because if they cooperate i think the white house the administration realizes that there all the appearances of a massive cover up involving not just the white house, the state department, the intelligence agencies, foreign service. if they cooperate things are going to get worse for them. poll numbers are probably go tag go down and the plot is going to thicken. if they don't cooperate, they try to shut off the information flow and call nancy pelosi's hand sooner rather than later on an impeachment votes and we're at a tipp...