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Grew after the 9/11 attacks. we know it grew very fast with inefficiencies, but we also believe we thwarted attacks. they are trying to see what they can cut back on. redundancies, absolutely. there are a lot of them in the intelligence community. some are good, some are planned. you want to have competing points of view on a specific intelligence problem. but if spending is out of control, that is something defense secretary robert gates has really tried to get moving on because a lot of the intelligence spending does come here at the pentagon. what had been the big concern about this washing...

Since the democrats took control of the congress, chris, there's been an 84% increase in nondefense discretionary spending. the president wants to freeze it at that level. but that's freezing it at an 84% increase. we need to set goals. they need to be serious goals. then we need to be prepared to do the hard work on everything in this budget through fiscal restraint and reform to bring our federal budget within its means and within the means of the american people. >> i sympathize with you, congressman, but you're the party of fiscal responsibility. the people watching and listening right now...

Veteran. bill, i'll begin with you. how much is this costing us? well, that's a really good question. we don't know exactly. we couldn't determine the cost. it's not clear that anyone could. part of the problem is we've created a director of national intelligence who isn't really a director of national intelligence, and the pentagon spends about 2/3 of the money, and much of it is not in his control, and then there are all the homeland security agencies and the civil apparatus that equally spends money. though the official figure for intelligence spending is $75 billion a year, my guess it's d...