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Killing osama bin laden, but those programs saved american lives. we know now because of declassified intelligence that those programs helped us to prevent terror attacks on this nation. >> sean: he opposes enhanced interrogation, uponned to close gitmo, said he would do it on day 1. didn't happen. he opposed rendition. we interviewed jose rodriguez. he was there when -- when the waterboarding, the enhanced interrogations occurred. i asked him, would we have been able to find bin laden if we had not used the intelligence-gathering that obama opposed. here's his answer. you don't think we would...

Nature, they're not easy places to go in and capture people. >> right. >> it's not a terrain where that's very feasible so the use of drones, whatever questions you've got about it, isn't really an alternative to going in and capturing on the ground. >> are you saying we still have the program? >> we still -- >> that we still have the program that we had going from 2002 to 2005? >> people -- >> 2006? >> if somebody in south waziristan was captured tomorrow by some sort of joint operating team on the ground, that person would be turned over, i think, to the military for questioning. >> do we ha...

Strikes is considered a terrorist because he is hanging out around them. you wonder how long that will fly in international circles. >>guest: well, that is rue and one of the thing that is another important aspect of this, we had the national security leaks a couple of weeks ago about president obama being engaged in the target selection, and this is exactly why you do not want that kind of operation adalat in the public domain because who sets the rules? this is evolving policy. it will take time. we had similar issues about guantanamo bay and the interrogation methods. this is a new era with...

Board techniques were used. take a listen. >> we were not told that waterboarding or enhanced interrogation methods were used. >> i personally was the person that went to the congress in tenth, 2002. i briefed her on the interrogation of techniques we used. >> in 2002 you told her of waterboarding? >> greg: i'm not surprised. the bigger question is why the water boarding and torture is seen as a bad thing. everybody against torture talks about it as a principle. america doesn't torture. circular argument. we don't torture because we don't torture. the bigger principle you do whatever it takes ...

Board techniques were used. take a listen. >> we were not told that waterboarding or enhanced interrogation methods were used. >> i personally was the person that went to the congress in tenth, 2002. i briefed her on the interrogation of techniques we used. >> in 2002 you told her of waterboarding? >> greg: i'm not surprised. the bigger question is why the water boarding and torture is seen as a bad thing. everybody against torture talks about it as a principle. america doesn't torture. circular argument. we don't torture because we don't torture. the bigger principle you do whatever it takes ...