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American people would look at it and say, look what he's getting done? he's able to gather all these ceo's and our lives will be made better because of it? >> i think it was made because donald trump thought that's what would impress him, that's what impresses him. can learn a lot on ground level too? >> can the president's tarnish or hurt these companies in anyway? >> i mean, that's why a lot of the companies left, at least at first, it was harming them from a pr perspective. you're talking right now about charlottesville and the fallout from the president's comments about what happened this ...

That came out in the pence statement is critical. we have a president that's over the top. that language was over the top and i think he's speaking man-to-man to a president who likes language like, this is it's washington. it happens. it's not a big deal. >> john kirby, he says disgraceful to me, my family, my entire team. what's your reaction? >> using size 12 to kill the cockroach again and again and again. i've never responded to stories like that, never had to but i do understand where they are coming from from a pr perspective and, as jamie said, rightly the statement was for an audience...

Head and out of his depth. i don't believe that. >> from a pr perspective it was brilliant. got his side of the story out before he leaked out from the committee. i think that's smart. >> okay, refusing to talk to the open committee. refused to talk to senate in open committee. refused to take questions there. reading a script verbatim. >> he is getting out in front of the story. telling his side. then a private meeting with the intelligence committee and giving all of the information that he has. i think doing a -- >> but they have nothing to hide. why not just speak in open hearings? and why...

Drag that out? >> i think it's probably smart from a political perspective to not be appearing public and not have the idea that you're in a defensive posture. i think this is smart from a pr perspective more than a legal one. i don't think it makes any difference legally. >> when we get to how democrats are talking about this, we have an op ed from former obama chief of staff dennis mcdonagh who wrote wrote. this is the headline, obama stood up to russian interference. now trump must do the same. what is the feeling in d.c. about russia, the existing sanctions and how this administration move...

Light, my sense is that he probably would have worked that out with congress and i would think that congress in this case would not want to interfere with this investigation. >> what do you think, shy of a pants on fire moment, what do you think the chances are that they actually take him up on this and do testify publicly? >> that congress will? >> that these two men -- that these two men will say yes to testifying publicly. >> that's a great question. you know, if i were their defense attorneys, i would not want them to do that, precisely because of what i just explained, and the trouble it ...