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Geragos. you made that sound like something that you'd actually want to do, lie to a jury to get an expert based on her allegations and there's nothing to prove anything she said. >> remember, all you've got to do -- it isn't lying to a jury. the same thing that prosecutors do all the time when they make allegations. >> mark, mark, that's not right. >> quit talking about prosecutors. you're talking about this case. >> defense lawyers have a legal -- it's more legally permissible to sort of be inventive with the facts. prosecutors can't just decide to make up allegations to get an expert witnes...

Put "no" down, you're a liar. that's not a good citizen. and we have the right to know if a person has been through the system. we have that right. they should have a way to come out as well. >> larry: judge, respond. >> well, the individual isn't lying, the politicians that passed the law, elected officials in the legislature have passed the law stating that. so adhering to the law is not lying. >> if they ask you if -- if they ask if you've committed a crime and you say no, you're lying. >> excuse me, excuse me. not if the elected officials have voted -- >> larry: it's still lying. >> you're...

Society. like when they come out, i think they need to pay for part of the rehabilitation, so it's not just a free ride they're getting. they need to pay back to society and pay back the victims they took advantage of. when you expunge a record, that means you lied to society. you're telling a person to go into a job who one day ask you, did you commit a crime, you put no down, you're a liar. that's not a good citizen. we have the right to know a person has been through the system. but they have a right to come out as well. >> the individual that isn't lying, the politicians that passed the la...

I think incrementally, you have to find a way to help these people move to the outside. i think they need to pay back society. i think they need to work within society. like when they come out, i think they need to pay for part of their rehabilitation so it's not just a free ride that they're getting. they're actually paying back to society and paying back the victims they took advantage of. and i have to mention the thing about expungement. i kind of disagree with that. when you expunge a record, that means you lie to society. you're telling a person to go into a job and when they ask you, di...

That's not a good citizen. >> larry: judge, respond. >> well, the individual isn't lying, the politicians that passed the law, elected officials in the legislature have passed the law stating that. so adhering to the law is not lying. >> if they ask you if -- if they ask if you've committed a crime and you say no, you're lying. >> excuse me, excuse me. not if the elected officials have voted -- >> larry: it's still lying. >> you're still lying. i wouldn't want to be put in a position to lie. >> larry: pat, let him finish. >> an expungement for the most part is just that. it takes it off your r...