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A lot of murky, we've heard a lot of buzz. everybody talks about what they think they've heard as the best reporting on this. but this isn't reporting. this isn't the media. this is a woman with a clear-cut memory, apparently, or an accusation of a memory which is stark as hell? >> yeah. and i think it's conceivably a watershed moment in this whole episode. as you said, and i'll draw it out a little bit further, herman cain last week had a series of allegations and a series of facts that became known. each day, they got a little worse, to my eye. but they all were still confined to stories by ...

Political aspects of this. we're not a court of law, but i'm thinking that -- we've heard a lot of murky, we've heard a lot of buzz. everybody talks about what they think they've heard as the best reporting on this. but this isn't reporting. this isn't the media. this is a woman with a clear-cut memory, apparently, or an accusation of a memory which is stark as hell? >> yeah. and i think it's conceivably a watershed moment in this whole episode. as you said, and i'll draw it out a little bit further, herman cain last week had a series of allegations and a series of facts that became known. eac...

Described as a grayer area and makes it much more specific. >> black and white. john heilemann, let's talk about the political aspect. we've heard a lot of murky, we've heard a lot of buzz. you and i have talked about it off-camera, everybody talks about what they've think they've heard as the best reporting on this. but this isn't reporting, this isn't the media. this is a woman with a clear-cut memory, apparently, or an accusation of a memory, which is stark as hell. >> uh, yeah. and i think it's conceivably a watershed moment in this whole episode, chris. because as you said, and i'll just ...

The front page editor says i'll take the best of those. so it is still a barometer of what's important in that news room. >> the argument on the right is that the press or some element of the press is burying this story. in an interview with george stef n stephanopoulos was a question of president obama. >> if it's being covered by conservatives or investigated by republicans, then it must be a partisan witch-hunt. but you say it's a matter of not covering it, but a matter of volume. there are issues not being covered. a judge said there was wrongdoing when the irs improperbly probably illegal...