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Obviously. so in and of itself the act isn't grounds for obstruction or anything else. but could the intent, how does the intent tell you about the president's mind-set and might that seep in other parts of the investigation? >> well, first of all, you don't have to succeed in obstructing justice to obstruct justice. that he didn't ultimately fire mueller doesn't mean anything. in and of itself, it is a conclusive piece of evidence. it is one more piece in the puzzle as we try to discern what the president's motives, intent was. that is actually quite important because he does have the legal a...

It is obstruction of justice. >> what was important about that questioning to you on a week where the trump legal team took the position that it is impossible for donald trump to obstruct justice and then walk that back publicly? >> well, it is very clear, the law is very clear that he the president and anybody can obstruct justice. the fact that you have legal authority to fire an fbi director, or to criticize an investigation, doesn't mean that you can do it corruptly. it doesn't mean that you can do it for improper purposes. so it is an argument, what seemed like shot in the dark by an incr...

Former general counsel to the united states army. counselors, welcome to you both. paul, the question first goes to you, obstruction of justice, one of those terms very easy to use. we've read about it, we've seen it in movies. does this begin to fit here, to your mind? >> you bet, brian. obstruction of justice and attempt to influence or impede a judicial or congressional investigation, corruptly, you have to do it corruptly. that word is doing a lot of work here. lawyers look for smoking gun evidence. what do we know about this conversation between trump and comey? before he had the conversa...

>> not that i know of. >> joining our conversation, former department of justice prosecutor georgetown law school, and jill wine banks, one of the special prosecutors during the watergate scandal and former general counsel to the united states army. counselors, welcome to you both. paul, the question first goes to you, obstruction of justice, one of those terms very easy to use. we've read about it, we've seen it in movies. does this begin to fit here, to your mind? >> you bet, brian. obstruction of justice and attempt to influence or impede a judicial or congressional investigation, corruptly...

Counsel to the united states army. counselors, welcome to you both. paul, the question first goes to you, obstruction of justice, one of those terms very easy to use. we've read about it, we've seen it in movies. does this begin to fit here, to your mind? >> you bet, brian. obstruction of justice and attempt to influence or impede a judicial or congressional investigation, corruptly, you have to do it corruptly. that word is doing a lot of work here. lawyers look for smoking gun evidence. what do we know about this conversation between trump and comey? before he had the conversation, he asked ...