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>> well, if you want to begin with the sex abuse crisis, leadership taking responsibility for acting poorly. it also means to clean house and show the world that when you say zero tolerance, you mean zero tolerance. anyone accused of abuse or implicated in any way is removed and in some way punished. i think that is part of the reform. what he's talking about, there's a set of issues to talk about there. it doesn't mean that the pope or the church is not in the modern world if it doesn't agree with those perspectives. the two don't necessarily have to be merged. >> in terms of the governance o...

There are things that alienate them. we would like to see someone that can open their mind and heart and the church to the contemporary world. it started back in vatican, too. for the last 30 or 40 years we have seen a backward movement, not a movement toward the modern and contemporary society. >> father, for you, what does reform mean? >> well, if you want to begin with the sex abuse crisis, leadership taking responsibility for acting poorly. it also means to clean house and show the world that when you say zero tolerance, you mean zero tolerance. anyone accused of abuse or implicated in any...

Leadership taking responsibility for acting poorly. it also means to clean house and show the world that when you say zero tolerance, you mean zero tolerance. anyone accused of abuse or implicated in any way is removed and in some way punished. i think that is part of the reform. what he's talking about, there's a set of issues to talk about there. it doesn't mean that the pope or the church is not in the modern world if it doesn't agree with those perspectives. the two don't necessarily have to be merged. >> in terms of the governance of the vatican itself, the beaurocracy, the scandal and qu...

Somebody is a bully the only way to stop the bully you have to hit him back. >> you can't allow yourself to be steam rollered. >> i don't think i am being steam rolled. >> to take no offense and no reaction to this. when you are called a racist. >> i said no reaction. i said i would argue it on the merits. >> i want to respond forcefully to what is being said. >> should you be aggressive or persuasive? congregation is not going to win elections. you have to be for something. >> wait a minute. it doesn't mean. i am for something. i want to drill. i want a balanced budgets. i want to live within...

Going to be in biographers' heads and will affect the way -- but it doesn't affect what they did or do as presidents p. >> why? >> because the cuban missile crisis stands as it is. that still becomes an act that has to be judged. it doesn't mean -- biographers are going to shadow it but -- >> the people on -- the people on that mountain now, should thomas jefferson be there? slave holder? had a longtime sexual relationship with a woman he owned. >> george washington. >> should george washington, a slave owner? should abraham lincoln, who said if i could stave union and preserve slavery i would...