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Importantly for us he is a msnbc contributor. and, chuck, what -- to my point, what doesn't this indictment say? what's not written or spoken in this? >> well, there's a lot not written or spoken. but one thing that jumps out at me, brian -- forgive me, i'm about to drop a double negative on you. >> that's all right. we allow them. >> nobody should draw any comfort or suste nance from what's not in the indictment. there isn't a paragraph that says, the following people are all vindicated. the notion that you would say that this vindicates maybe because i'm not mentioned here is just silly. wha...

Barack obama, when he was president in his final days, basically changed the rules on who could have access to this kind of raw intelligence. it could be spread more -- far and wide within the government. >> right. according to "the new york times" report, the president feared that his successor would try to destroy evidence or something, so it needed to be spread very widely through nonregular challenges. this is, i think, pretty disturbing. i mean, when we had the edward snowden debate, it was about spying on americans. here you have an administration using the intelligence apparatus to unde...

Barack obama, when he was president in his final days, basically changed the rules on who could have access to this kind of raw intelligence. it could be spread more -- far and wide within the government. >> right. according to "the new york times" report, the president feared that his successor would try to destroy evidence or something, so it needed to be spread very widely through nonregular challenges. this is, i think, pretty disturbing. i mean, when we had the edward snowden debate, it was about spying on americans. here you have an administration using the intelligence apparatus to unde...