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Being rewarded for it, what are the structures we put in place to reward and move people out of poverty? >> if you look at the -- a lot of people talk about reforming the current structures. it measures need. the more need you have, the more resources you need -- my sister used to get beat up. sure enough, she needed counseling and needed to assess that particular piece. what we have is a system that we use, is really an investment system. totally different. what we feed is a system that measures initiative, measures hard work. we don't have that lo low income. >> does that look like a system ...

Says we are now running national education systems where mistakes are the worst thing you can make and the result is we are educating people out of their creative capacities. what do you make of that in terms of kids being educated out of their creative capacities? >> i think there's any question about that. and there is a problem with the standardized tests. first of all, there's concerns about what exactly does it measure? all it measures is your ability to take a standardized test, but we have gotten into this because of a feeling there's no accountability in the schools. how do you measure...