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It just doesn't add up. i always want to know how he's going to deal with the senate and the house. he seems to forget he's got to deal with that group of people. i'm hoping that he will say things that are unifying. i look at a lot of things that have been said. i've got to be frank with you, april, mika and joe, i grew up in a household where both my parents were pentecostal ministers. in my household, a lie is a lie is a lie. i'm hoping the president will be very honest with the american people. yesterday he met with hbcu president and they asked me for my advice before they went in. i said...

Today's torture report asks three main questions, the answers depend on your political leanings. number one, does torture work? number two, is it moral, ever? and number three, should the torture report ever been made public? joining me now former rnc chair michael steele and joan walsh, both are msnbc political anal t analys analysts. i'm going to let michael start, i want to hear your positions and then you'll have to defend them. first of all, a good moral question. torturing. a means to an end? does the end, even if it works, justify the means of torture? even if it gets us information. >>...

Leanings. number one, does torture work? number two, is it moral, ever? and number three, should the torture report ever been made public? joining me now former rnc chair michael steele and joan walsh, both are msnbc political analysts. i'm going to let michael start, i want to hear your positions and then you'll have to defend them. first of all, a good moral question. torturing. a means to an end? does the end, even if it works, justify the means of torture? even if it gets us information. >> i think it does. if it's the weighing against the loss of greater potential life, potential loss of ...

Successful people? is it moral to give our children and grandchildren massive debt? is it moral, half the population that works, to pay nothing at all? dr. carson takes the oppose moral position -- takes the opposite moral position and says the current taxation system is immoral. god wants a percentage, not a triple percentage because you're rich. he says, look, having skin in the game is moral. that was the message from dr. carson, and i fully agree with it. that's purely on moral grounds. >>brian: it was so powerful the "wall street journal" on their op-ed page had the headline ben carson fo...

Are you going to say, you don't get to eat, you don't get any welfare benefits because you have a parent who broke the law? >> fair point. now, you're raising the moral issue and the issue of illegal immigration. megyn: because when you talk about it just in the abstract without thinking about a little 1-year-old going hungry and not having food, it's easy to decide the issue. it's when you think of the moral consequences that it gets tougher. >> point well taken. i approach this, however, from the financial point of view. we're looking at the finances of california state and los angeles itsel...