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Sides of the coin. it feels like the vibe is picked up from last year when i was here and the president was not here, but of course, you are hearing that the night is completely different given that a sitting president is not in the room. >> my colleague issavannah sells on the red carpet in hilton, and she is there with gary cohn and kellyanne conway, and kellyanne conway doing the yeoman's work talking gary cohn's old book i should say and her point is to talk about the economy in michigan. and jane small, reaction to what you heard there from in particular kellyanne conway the counselor to ...

Williams. and jane small, "time" magazine. lady, welcome to you both. katie, your reaction to the white house' defense of this controversial pardon and the signal it's sending when it comes to any future pardons. >> certainly the criticism you are hearing from democrats on capitol hill is that they believe the president is sending kind of a wink-wink nod-nod to some of the potential witnesses in the federal probe into russian interference in the election. the suggestion being that the president might be saying to them, look, i'll take care of you no matter what happen, even if special counsel ...

If the president is looking for a certain level of softening with some of the positions that he promised during the campaign, there's a chance that steve bannon may not be willing to go along with some of those ideas. >> ryan nobody else, thank you so much. let's talk more about this potential shakeup with our political expert, ryan lizza, washington correspondent for the new yorker magazine. jane small contributor for time magazine. let's look at it again. it's one thing to be at the table. it's a another to be in the room. steve bannon customarily is at the table. is he looking on as you see...