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Talking about how there could be violence at the convention if somehow people moved to block his nomination. so this is a president and a crowd of folks of the likes we've never seen. he's willing to provoke, to disturb the peace and it's all in his interests. one of the great things that might actually come out of this is that americans may be shocked into ending this period of intense conflict among ourselves. we may say, well, this is how bad it can get, and we're not going to wait for his leadership, we're going to make the country better ourselves right now. >> jay seculo says, we have ju...

Multijurisdictional, there was no war room, we responded as appropriate, we won that battle. and so now we know that this white house, this president doesn't believe they need a war room to wage this battle. we know that the president feels he is his best messenger. do you think he's right? >> absolutely not. i think mr. seculo and the president are in a fantasy world right now. to imagine they've prevailed with robert mueller when there were 10 documented incidents of obstruction of justice, and the country was focused finally on the president's wrongdoing, and then the very next day he place...

Now in washington where i think people are less afraid of him, there's proof that nancy pelosi and the house leadership are outrunning him, what jay seculo said about the last few days being very difficult. and lost time for the president is true. and he may be discovering the limits of his own abilities to chart a course alone. >> if people in washington are less afraid of him. why aren't more republicans speaking up? we'll have that conversation a little bit later. michael deanne t d antonio, you awesome as always. president trump has attacked and threatened the whistle-blower and those wh...

I think it does matter. >> it does matter, of course. but we don't -- we have no evidence of that, you know. >> okay. >> we have ind kagications but have no evidence. >> i want to talk about rudy giuliani, of course, elie, coming to jay sekulow's defense. tweeting this, jay sekulow is one of the very most ethical lawyers and honest men i have ever known. michael cohen is a serial liar, he should be prosecuted for his blatant perjury. jay should get the most effective and ethical lawyer of the year award. what does that make rudy giuliani. >> i'm not aware of that particular award. i think what...

So if we have serious allegations that the president himself engaged in corruption, for example, by paying off mistresses in violation of the campaign finance laws, we already have documentary evidence to that effect. that's an investigative lead we have to follow. if there is evidence the president's lawyers cooperated with michael cohen or encouraged michael cohen to misrepresent the facts in his testimony before congress, that's an investigative lead we have to follow. and so on. >> to that point we heard what michael cohen said under oath about jay seculo. i hear it may be a thread you guy...