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Can you do to save lives and ukraine. it's just that simple, and maybe it's not mig-29, maybe something else, why can you do to save lives and ukraine. >> john, do you agree with that? with the exception of moving putin from power, is there anything that is going to stop this man? >> no, i think we could've expected that he was going to double down. we saw what happened in northern chechnya and in the 1990s and 2000s. they thought i was gonna be easy, going to put in a proper government, in recognize, so they essentially went in it and carve all in the place into the where is nothing left. i t...

Who can help extricate her? >> i'm sure there's somebody at the embassy that's going to try to get in touch with her, and find lawyers who they believe are honest to try to help her out. if we remember from the broader magnitsky problem, well meaning lawyers can find themselves cracked down in the state. what's happening in russia is quite a bit of oppression, they have closed russian media, any kind of independent media, they have closed western media, they're cracking down on anyone who's a threat to the regime. now is a dangerous time to be in russia. >> absolutely. john, thank you so much ...

And what should we do, it's our country, it's our lives and our children behind us. we don't have a place to run. we will defend it and we will win. now the only question is about humanity. it's not just a war anymore, it's just looking at how people are killed, now and several days will be looking at how people are dying from hunger. >> it is extraordinary to watch all of this. dimitri o, thank you for joining us. we are thinking of you and your parents tonight. >> bye-bye. >> with that, let's bring our experts, michael mcfaul, former u.s. ambassador to russia, and msnbc international affairs...

Law on democracy. it's something we need to take incredibly seriously, this country is the arsenal no for democracy in world war ii. we did the berlin airlift, we did lend lease, we fought wars on the part of cassava and kuwait, wars one against terrorism. this is equally -- only to the experts whether no-fly zone should have been, or mig-29's, those are things that can be decided. but if we are doing everything we, can we're showing timidity in doing what vladimir putin might consider escalatory, we're only losing. where the biggest and most powerful country on earth, with the most powerful s...

Change, and immediate overthrow of putin or anything like that. but we need to sort of start to get information into that system, because as the russian people who are suffering here, not as much as the ukrainians, obviously, putin is throwing them under the bus. their economy is going to be terrible for the next ten years. people are coming back in body bags, their pariahs around the world, and they're going to be dependent on china as a live little brother for years to come. they need to understand what vladimir putin is done to them. >> thank you both for joining us, tonight, john cipher, a...