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That the press is the enemy of the people. possibly, this took place in earlier decades, but certainly not in the last 100 years. and you know, john would have probably more to say about that than i do, but does it create a dangerous climate? absolutely. i just don't see how you can argue that that is not at risk of inciting someone. >> certainly, we've never seen an american president -- >> that's right. >> -- in -- >> that's what i'm saying here, yes. >> -- enemy of the people -- >> that's a staggering sentence in itself. >> yes, and it's meant to be. but this individual, according to our in...

Know. >> the path that he took, and i don't know about selene, i have not connected with some of the advertising people in the front during the time it was happen, but the path that he took, i don't know, john was trying to get out. maybe it was just an opportunistic shot. i know two of the editors that he went after were in a similar position to the other reporters where they were at their desks. >> can you say what he looked like, phil? >> i can -- yeah. police showed us a photo of him once they brought us into the department. he was kind of a maybe late 20s, early 30s. white male. maybe 5'7...

I think that this person was going after editors, and i could be wrong, right. like i don't know anything. but that's what happened here. editors died. and -- but -- yeah. >> you think that might have been intentional or is that based on where people were sitting? >> i mean, i don't know for sure. it's just the facts. editors died, and that's all i know. >> yeah, the path that he took, and i -- we have not -- i don't know about selene, i have not connected with m some of the advertising people who are up in the front during the time that it was happening. but the path that he took, i don't kno...

But -- you know, i'm sure you know the rest of the story. >> yeah. >> and i know as phil said, celine, time is difficult to tell in a situation like this. was anybody saying anything? was the gunman saying anything? were people being quiet? do you remember the sounds? >> i just remember the shots. i just remember -- i don't remember if it was before or after the shot john said what the fuck, and those are the only words i can remember. i don't know. i didn't hear anybody yelling. we just -- from the sounds we knew what was happening, but i didn't hear anything else besides the shots. >> yeah...

Filing cabinet, and i think john was still trying to get out the door. i'm not sure what -- i'm not sure exactly in the next couple seconds what happened, but then i know that john was standing up. i heard the footsteps, and he -- john got shot. it was very close. i saw him get shot, but i didn't see the gunman or anything. and he fell down. i mean, i heard footsteps a couple times. my purse was on the floor just away from the desk, and my sunglasses were on the floor. and i'm sure i was breathing really loud, and i was trying not to, but i just -- i couldn't be quiet, and he never came to our...