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Questions and a lot of confusion. nbc justice correspondent pete williams is following this story. pete, there is a hearing going on right now. can you make sense of this for us? >> well, we think it's still going on. we don't know. it's a conference call between the judge and the lawyers here. but because the courthouse is closed, we don't know whether it's over yet or not. but here's the deal here. kupperman filed his lawsuit saying to the judge, i've got the subpoena from the house. i've got the white house telling me not to testify. you tell me what to do. i don't care one way or the other...

Switching vehicles. there's the mcgahn lawsuit that's ongoing. that might raise the same issues and get to a more expedient judicial sort of decision. so i think that mulvaney is probably trying to intervene, in part, to protect his reputation so that he looks like not just the lackey of the president but someone who might want to have a political career after this all sort of shakes out. >> does it make it more difficult to potentially hear from john kupperman? >> i don't think it necessarily makes it more difficult. what the bolton/kupperman lawyers have said is that they have a different se...

Number two, they say, he may have already waved any immunity when he had that news conference and talked about a quid pro quo and number three, kupperman's lawyers say to the judge, you know what, last week, the house withdrew the subpoena for kupperman's testimony saying things have moved on. we don't need him anymore. allowing mulvaney to enter at this point is just going to bog it down and prevent you from doing what you ought to do, judge, which is to dismiss this lawsuit. so if mulvaney doesn't prevail here, if he can't intervene, then presumably, he'll just have to file his own lawsuit a...

Even for a story full of twists and turns, the latest legal twist in the impeachment inquiry is odd. right now, there's a hearing going on where acting white house chief of staff mick mulvaney is trying to join a lawsuit against his boss, president trump. and if that weren't odd enough, the existing plaintiff does not want a legal alliance with mick mulvaney. the lawsuit on impeachment testimony was first brought by former national security advisor john bolton's deputy charles cooperman, who shares a lawyer with bolton. cooperman asked a federal judge to determine whether he should comply with...

Mull vane ya wants to john kupperman's lawsuit. he would answer questions from lawmakers if courts were to compel him to. if he is allowed to join that suit, he would be going against his own boss. whipple, who wrote a book about it, said he could not think of any precedent for a chief of staff going to court given that mulvaney has been willing to do almost anything for trump, he told the "times". it is remarkable he is asking for a second opinion. >> john bolton is in for a $2 million book deal. therefore he has a lot to say. turn to the lawyer first. what's going on here? this is unorthodox...