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Other. she are shooting in the dark now and that being the case, there is no way trump will ever speak to mueller since they don't know what mcgahn said to mueller. >> what is he talking about? >> you know, it is hard to tell, sometimes what the president is talking about. robert mueller is not only lawfully appointed. he is acting within his authority and he appears to be acting just like any other federal prosecutor is. gathering evidence, using subpoenas and search warrants in a lawful fashion. all have been upheld in court. all of manafort's motions have been denied. going through the proc...

Team. take a listen. >> we have a good sense of what mr. mcgahn testified. >> how do you say good sense? have you debriefed them? >> no. but he talked to him at the time. >> you don't know what he testified to to mr. mueller. >> through john dowd we have a good sense of it. and i will use his words. that mcgahn was a strong witness for the president. >> reporter: you can see how rudy giuliani wavered a bit. they have not fully debriefed mcgahn. the lawyers representing don mcgahn provided them with a

Special counsel office. spent 30 hours talking to don mcgahn. and one paragraph that says they don't think they have talked to don mcgahn at all during what happened during the campaign. everyone says, and the president likes this narrative, this witch hunt about whether the trump campaign colluded with russians. that is how it started. but as soon as the president fired his fbi director and said on television, he was doing it because of russia, it became about something else. the president is his own worst enemy. and omarosa started because the president tweeted about her. it would be interes...

Witness for robert mueller. very few people were in the room for some of these conversations. we heard reporting that the president acted in an enraged fashion. blew up at attorney general jeff sessions for recusing himself. in fact there was an original letter that was penned by steven miller reportedly at the president's election that don mcgahn edited and provided comments on. he was involved in the reasoning and the decisions that were made that were going to be central to the investigation. the president has done a number of things that appear like they are tried to impede the investigati...

He didn't go in with the intent to incriminate the president, just giving the president or putting everything in a time line for the special counsel is just invaluable information. >> joining us now is cnn legal analy analyst. so paul, do you agree with john dean that trump likely has no idea what mcgahn said and he likely gave investigators invaluable information. >> i think that is clear as day. especially with this crazy dispute we are having. with rudy giuliani just telling the truth doesn't protect you from perjury because what is the truth. i suspect mcgahn might have been revealing the ...