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Assistant secretary of state, now the editor of the "bloomberg view." always good to have you here with us. some people seem to be jumping ship, if you will, when it comes to gadhafi's regime. he's had several members of his government to step away from him, come out publicly. the military now we hear about defections. is this disturbing when it comes to stability in the country? >> yes, there's no question that libya's going to be chaotic for some period of time. how chaotic is the question. it seems to me that gadhafi has prepared himself for many decades for this kind of moment by hiring se...

Nuclear weapons program, but there are fears, for instance, that he still possesses chemical weapons. he still has some warships that he could deploy. i mean, really, the possibilities are endless. and that really is what concerns people. because gadhafi is clearly in a corner. he's, as i said, isolated domestically and internationally. he's seen that some of his traditional allies faded away. in fact, i spoke with one of -- a senior intelligence officer until just last week had been one of his oldest allies. he had actually taken part in the 1969 coup that overthrew the monarchy. and he said,...

He's irrational, and he just, he switched sides. he went over to the anti-gadhafi forces. so even his oldest allies seem to be jumping ship. >> ben, thank you very much. you're doing a great job there. please keep safe and keep reporting for cnn from inside libya. now i want to welcome my special guest for this evening, hugh hefner. hugh, do i call you hugh? hef? what do you like to be called? >> hef. >> hef, what do you think of what's going on in the world right now? you've been through so many things, the cold war, the vietnam war, the end of the russian revolution. what do you make of what...

Senior officials here at the state department, is speaking with the foreign minister and some others. so there is a bit of, you know, communication. but whether they're listening to anything that the united states is saying is another question. >> it's also this bizarre situation, fareed, because you have the deputy ambassador to the u.n. calling for gadhafi to step down. i interviewed the libyan ambassador to the u.s. yesterday who at that point was saying he was with the people but wasn't calling for gadhafi to step down. something changed by the time i interviewed him and talking to george ...

Representatives who by the way could be accused of just been opportunists of seeing the wind blowing against gadhafi and now are jumping ship, because they've been represent thing guy for years, for decades. >> it highlights the problem. this is a regime with no institutional existence or loyalty. it's a bunch of people around gadhafi who run it. these people, the diplomats around the world, they probably have no contact. there's no institutional construct, so they're spinning off. but the key is will those people who are commanding the helicopter gunships, are they going to break or crack? >>...