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The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:08:00

that worked at omb legal expressed concerns about the hold on ukraine security assistance and resigned from omb. did this person tell you they were leaving or resigning from omb at least in part because of their concerns or frustrations about the hold on ukraine security assistance? answer, yes. in terms of how -- yes. in terms of process. and there's some back and forth with the lawyer who's there with mark sandy, this omb official. but eventually sandy comes back to the point and says this. he says, quote, the individual who resigned from the office at omb did note a disagreement on this topic. question, and this topic being the hold on ukraine security assistance, answer, correct. >> okay, just to be clear what was the disagreement with? was the disagreement with the fact that omb was implementing the hold? was it disagreement how the general counsel's office was holding it? what was the disagreement?

Ukraine , June-19th-omb , Part , Hold , Person , Concerns , White-house-office-of-management-and-budget , Frustrations , Ukraine-security-assistance , Mark-sandy , Apportionment-process , Lawyer

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:32:00

we did not know that before we got this testimony tonight. what's also knew is the surprise word from capitol hill that omb documents on this subject have apparently been hand over to congress despite the white house supposedly putting a total lock down on any cooperation with the impeachment proceedings. it's the budget and appropriations committees who say they've received documents on this subject from omb and the documents they got according to the chairs of those two committees they say show a, quote, pattern of abuse by the white house. joining us now is congressman dan kildy. thanks for making time for us tonight. >> thanks, rachel. >> so i am surprised that you're committee has these omb documents given the fact they were quite germane to these impeachment proceedings and the white house has indicated they're not handing over anything that might be germane to those proceedings. how did your committee get them?

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The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-05:24:00

the committees had apparently asked omb for these documents in september, all related to the withholding of the military aid for ukraine. the agency ignored the committee's october deadline to produce those documents, but in a surprise twist today, hello, the house budget committee announced actually it has started receiving some of those documents. now, the committee is not releasing those raw documents to show the public at this time, but they did share a summary of the findings from these documents with reporters. that summary says in part, quote, after careful review the chairs have become more concerned that the apportionment process has been abused to undermine congress' constitutional power of the purse. specifically number one, the timeline of actions taken by omb as seen in the provided apportionments which are legally binding documents suggests a pattern of abuse and current

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The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:07:00

assistance. he depressed some frustrations about not understanding the reason for the hold. that's my recollection. question, was this individual within the legal division? answer, no. question, are you aware of any individual in the legal division resigning or leaving omb? answer, oh. question, at least in part because of ukraine security assistance. answer, oh, oh. yes, i am. meaning they were asking him about this person they had heard left from the legal division. he started telling them about a whole other person who resigned too and then he has to clarify i know somebody who quit the legal division too. and this person in the legal office expressed to me concerns about actions visa vi the impoundment control act. question, in the context of the ukraine security assistance and the hold. answer, ques, i'm aware of this person's frustrations in that area, yes. question, okay so this person

Question , Hold , Answer , Reason , Individual , Justice-departments-criminal-division , Recollection , Frustrations , Ukraine , June-19th-omb , Part , Security-assistance

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:31:30

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:31:30
archive.org - get the latest breaking news, showbiz & celebrity photos, sport news & rumours, viral videos and top stories from archive.org Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday newspapers.

Testimony , Omb-official-mark-sandy , Pages , 200 , Trump-didn-t , Ukraine , Military-aid , June-19th-omb , Hold , Things , Officials , Deposition

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:23:00

office of management and budget has steadfastedly refused thus far to comply with a subpoena from the impeachment investigators that they need to hand over all relevant documents, the other piece of big news tonight that we just got is that somebody in congress is starting to get these documents, or at least they're starting to get some of them. because today the budget committee and the appropriations committee announced out of the blue, surprise, that even though the impeachment committees are being stone walled by the white house, those two committees budget and appropriations, they have been getting stuff. they have received documents related to the white house holdup of military aid to ukraine. the committees had apparently asked omb for these documents in september, all related to the withholding of the military aid for ukraine. the agency ignored the committee's october deadline to produce those documents, but in a surprise twist today, hello,

Documents , White-house-office-of-management-and-budget , Impeachment-investigators , Piece , Subpoena , Steadfastedly , Somebody , News , Congress , Some , Out-of-the-blue , Budget-committee-and-the-appropriations

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:22:00

mr. duffy then forwarded this e-mail to you? correct. to the best of your knowledge has that e-mail been retained by omb? yes. was there anything else in this e-mail string or was it that one communication you already described? the only -- that was the only communication. question, okay. and what did you do with that e-mail? answer, i retained it. the e-mail sent from the white house chief of staff office making clear that the direction for the hold on the military aid from ukraine came directly from the president. oh, yeah, they sent that to mike, mike forwarded it to me, i retained it. of course i did. that communication exists. it is retained. it is the proof in this case of who did it. right? and what that sounds like to investigators is a dinner bell ringing. come and get it! they didn't just do it out loud. they typed it. and those communications are retained. well, turns out that while the

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The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-02:06:00

the news comes from this deposition which was just released tonight from the impeachment committees since the testimony of mark sandy who was a career staffer incidentally a military veteran, also a veteran official at the office of management and budget at omb. and this is where he breaks that news. he is asked by committee counsel, quote, are you aware of anyone resigning or leaving omb under any circumstances at least in part because of the manner which omb was handling ukraine security assistance. answer, i'm aware of one colleague who left in september. i'm always reluctant to speak to someone else's motivations. question, well, did you speak with this person who left in september about their departure from omb? answer, yes i did. question, and did that person express to you either in that conversation or any other prior conversations their position with regard ukraine security

Mark-sandy , Testimony , News , White-house-office-of-management-and-budget , Deposition , Impeachment-committees , Career-staffer , Military-veteran , Veteran , June-19th-omb , Quote , Part

The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-05:32:00

officials at omb appear to have resigned in protest against the president ordering a hold on military aid to ukraine. that's new. we did not know that before we got this testimony tonight. what's also new is the surprise word from capitol hill that omb documents on this subject have apparently been hand over to congress despite the white house supposedly putting a total lock down on any cooperation with the impeachment proceedings. it's the budget and appropriations committees who say they've received documents on this subject from omb and the documents they got according to the chairs of those two committees they say show a, quote, pattern of abuse by the white house. joining us now is congressman dan kildy. thanks for making time for us tonight. >> thanks, rachel. >> so i am surprised that your committee has these omb documents given the fact they are quite germane to the impeachment proceedings and given the fact the white house

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The Rachel Maddow Show-20191127-05:22:00

package? no. any other aid of any sort? not to my recollection. any other topic at all in this e-mail? no. to whom did mr. blair in the white house chief of staff's office send this e-mail? to mr. duffey. and who else was on the e-mail? i don't recall anybody else being copied. mr. duffey then forwarded this e-mail to you? correct. to the best of your knowledge has that e-mail been retained by omb? yes. was there anything else in this e-mail string or was it just that one communication you've already described? the only -- that was the only communication. question, okay. and what did you do with that e-mail? answer, i retained it. the e-mail sent from the white house chief of staff office making clear that the direction for the hold on the military aid from ukraine came directly from the president. oh, yeah, they sent that to mike, mike forwarded it to me, i retained it. of course i did. that communication exists. it is retained. it is the proof in this case of who did it. right?

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