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If he didn't know about it, what does that say? >> eric: the white house is that president trump just learned about it a few days ago. if he didn't know about it -- first of all, collusion to what and? doesn't there have to be in exchange of a thing of value, monetary value? >> collusion itself, it is not itself illegal, but the point is, unfortunately, the president's son, i think there was no malpractice here on paul manafort's part, because somebody has to be protecting the family and these campaigns. that doesn't seem to have happened. >> eric: you're allowed to meet with foreign nationals...

But keep in mind that while collusion may not be a crime, may not be something that's in a criminal statute that would be part of charges, but it could be an element within a charge. whether there's some kind of conspiracy or perhaps someone was using the campaign to maybe curry favor, a business favor or some other kind of favor. so you could have a situation where though collusion is not necessarily a crime, it could be an element of a crime. it could be facts that go into a larger conspiracy, facts of a criminal pattern that goes into a charge. but collusion itself, you're right, you know, ...