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To announce that he was dismissing alderman because of watergate nixon asked alderman to call around and asked if people liked his speech and he said he didn't think in this particular case he didn't think that was appropriate. my sense is that's the zone we're in. i could be wrong again, obviously. it's something secretary rumsfeld it's a known unknown, but i'd bet a significant amount of money that he's not calling around trying to challenge his pre-existing beliefs. >> certainly, that's what we understand from fired cabinet secretaries who have disagreed with him that, in fact, he does not ...

Something everybody assumes. when the president talks about paul manafort was there only a while. he's known manafort for years going back. the campaign chair for a pivotal period. who is to say paul manafort after he left the campaign left the campaign -- who is to say -- >> cory lewandowski didn't. >> who is to say paul manafort wasn't still in touch with the campaign or people on the campaign or donald trump and others on the campaign? again, known unknown. how much communication was there? my reporting suggests at least donald trump stayed in touch with paul manafort. how much more he talk...

Shady. i was going to say shadier, but that's a known unknown. it also just is right in our face the ease with which they lie about everything to everyone. >> right. i don't know anything about it, never happened. oh, yeah. >> always a lie. >> yeah, it kind of happened. i didn't know about it. well, actually i was involved in the whole thing, right? i mean, that's the progression that we've seen, you know, lie after lie after lie and that's a typical pattern. step back for a second. his lawyer is comparing this to conversations -- >> i love that. >> -- that he overheard among the mafia. that i...

1972, that had him asking, i think, the cia to block the fbi or maybe vice versa into the investigation of watergate. and these things move more slowly than people tend to either hope for or remember. and i think we're going to see that here. this is immensely complicated. we're not even sure exactly what all the issues are. but in point of fact, that was true of watergate. we think of the break-in and then leading to the resignation and kind of the front-line pbs documentary storytelling way, but there were a number of what became known as the white house horrors that ultimately became part o...

And kind of the front-line pbs documentary storytelling way, but there were a number of what became known as the white house horrors that ultimately became part of the investigation. and so i think we are in what another figure from that era, destined to be white house chief of staff, donald rumsfeld called a known unknown. >> jon, i was thinking of you today as you and i tend to reminisce about past presidents, about the tone of this president when we saw that tweet today that started, congratulations, america. it didn't go on to wish anyone congratulations. in fact, it was very dark, very ne...