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And things have quited down in the mueller investigation, not so much. they spent over 40 million in support. >> great honor to be here. i love the nra. >> and of course there is a shutdown, about to enter day 33. the senate preparing to vote thursday on competing bills to end it. both of which are all expected, almost guaranteed to fail. so let's go deeper, shall we? rudy giuliani spoke to dana bash today and just seemed to create more confusion insisting he is not lying for this president and answering dana's questions about whether his boss might be annoyed saying this, no, he's not. he jus...

Somebody like that? i do trust them customer >> no credibility. >> harris: congressman, thank you very much. good to see to see you. >> thank you, harris. >> harris: let's go deeper. tom depree who served as deputy attorney general under george w. bush, always good to have you on the program. i hope you're able to hear or watch my conversation just then with congressman selden pray they want to get your reaction to it. >> yes, absolutely. i think they made a very good point. to your question about how you cut a deal with the criminal lawyer, it's a fair point. if the idea is that at some point...

As well. lawyers don't do that. you're a lawyer. you know that as well as i do. >> so let's go deeper. who was the intended beneficiary of the giuliani strategy? because superficially, it would seem that they're providing cover for michael cohen, but is it that simple? >> i don't think it is that simple. what worries me is that this was primarily a play, again, to the public. you know, giuliani was there making all types of threats, calling the fbi agents storm troopers or, you know, saying that he's going to basically crush mueller. giuliani can't really imagine that that's going to intimidat...

Work for the rt. that's how he's repaying -- that's how he's repaying it. >> in other words, it's not that president trump told him. it's not that michael cohen said, hey, rudy, here's the way it happened, but, rather, it occurred to him. your reaction? >> first of all, it's not a defense. it actually is worse. first of all, basically changing what was called a gift into a loan does not get you out of campaign finance problems. it trips additional wires. you then have reporting problems, tax problems. also questions about past statements. so it doesn't help. and what was really curious about t...

Threaten suicide. one of the ways that makes suicide so devastating is when they want to take multiple people with them. and then commit suicide. we already know and we have had for decades known through psychiatrists and different programs, the people that are suicide-prone and have attempted. we really can't do anything with them. we can't incarcerate them permitly. we lost that ability. not a lot you can do. >> we look into where the balls were dropped and where we go from here. guys, thank you very much. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> let's go deeper. nasim aghdam didn't fit the profile o...