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Strikes before they were called off. >> right. >> tell us how you got there in this case. >> sure. i must say every time i open my mouth and talk about this i lose another few friends. war is a terrible thing. mass atrocities that we could prevent and don't. we would have been better going into rwanda saving lives lost there. in retrospect we were wise to go into bosnia, military strikes that achieved the dayton peace accord. intervention in kosovo, mali. i think that everybody is very much, by the overhang of iraq invasion. you never want to touch military purr again. at the end of the day, t...

Invasion. you never want to touch military purr again. at the end of the day, there are times when military power really can make a life saving difference. i don't think we should make blanket assumptions about its use. >> your conclusion, that that threat has worked. look what it has harvest sewed far. >> absolutely. it is tentative t it is uncertain. the whole deal may fall apart at any moment. right now we have a measure of progress. and i think it is -- impossible to imagine that having happened. if that threat had not been on the table. i think it is equally important to keep that threat ...