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>> but the question is -- >> it's a false choice. >> should the president risk being called a liberal, being called a democrat, progressive, whatever? should he risk that and go, you know, people don't like these terms. they make sense to the american people. should he be a progressive liberal president or should he try to be a centrist? that's my key question. i think the american people read this guy and they're trying to figure out what he is. senator sanders? >> well, i think, you know, the evidence is overwhelming. when the rich are getting richer and their effective tax rates are the low...

Actually did in doing that was he brought a deficit in the state of massachusetts to a surplus by the end of his term as governor. that is actually a pretty good credential for him to be talking about but he doesn't do it and he doesn't do it because deraise taxes. so yes. he has a little bit of an issue there. >> he may not do it because it's hard to do that and bring the deficit to a surplus and then say but let's not do that nationally. it's hard to say that president obama shouldn't close corporate loop holes to deal with the deficit but i did it in massachusetts. richard, it might be even...

The things necessary to get this economy moving again. >> but the question is -- >> it's a false choice. >> should the president risk being called a liberal, being called a democrat, progressive, whatever? should he risk that and go, you know, people don't like these terms. they make sense to the american people. should he be a progressive liberal president or should he try to be a centrist? that's my key question. i think the american people read this guy and they're trying to figure out what he is. senator sanders? >> well, i think, you know, the evidence is overwhelming. when the rich are g...

Income. their rate comes down. but somebody like warren buffet who makes all his money in capital gains, his rate would go up. and it's a fairer system. >> the average millionaire, billionaire pays 18% in taxes. >> rite. >> in america. doesn't simpson/bowles sound like a great idea? close the loop holes. if we could get them to even pay 25%. >> there is something to that. >> the only argument we're going to have is where the numbers fall down and how much the person who is making $oo,000 a yea -- $50,000 a year has to pay. this is a concept. i am not in favor of getting rifd the mortgage deduc...

today with different messages. a few hours ago, alri tv broadcast a defiant audio message from saif gadhafi saying his father and closest followers are hiding in tripoli suburbs and their morale is high. listen. >> the leadership is fine. the leader is fine. and we are fighting and we are drinking tea and coffee and we are sitting with our families. >> saif gadhafi also had a message for people he calls his brethren in tripoli and alibya. >> reporter: we're saying to everyone move now. everyone has to move now to attack all these gangsters of the rats. >> the people he's calling rats...