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Guideline, but in a case like holmes you may have an unusual case where she's going to be looking at such serious time it starts to look closer to the statutory max. here is what i mean, if i were just doing a ballpark i would say probably 10 to 15 years, but the challenge for holmes is that when you are convicted of defrauding people with a loss amount like this, 140 plus million dollars, then the sentencing guidelines send your sentencing range into the stratosphere. just to give an example she starts at a level 7 which i know doesn't mean anything but there is an increase of 24 levels in th...

And what are you -- and for the first time we are hearing a value number, $1.7 million is what he is accused overnot paying. >> that is right. in new york state, there is no bank fraud charge. so grand larceny is what they use. and for better or for worse, it is a much lower penalty than a federal bank fraud charge would have. i think that what happened here is that the manhattan d.a.'s office took their best shot to get allen weisselberg to cooperate, and i expect that everything they have against him is included in the indictment, and $1.7 million if that is actual tax avoidance and if that ...

Charged with enormous environmental vjiolationses. then had volkswagen. these are high level examples. it gives you a sense of scale if we're talking about fringe benefits that's on the lower end of cale. >> what does that make you think about what could be in the indictment >> here's a couple of things i'll be looking for. trump organization despite all the cover of being this glamorous organization is really a small family held corporation. i'll be looking for two big things. first does the indictment mention any of the trumps who served as vp, executive vp. it won't say their names but coul...

Hearing from matt miller in terms of the big picture, and i ask you this because you were heavily involved in first impeachment of the former president donald trump, and this is one more legal challenge that the president through his organization and the empire is going to face. i want you to taukt that. the significance of what this means today for the trump organization for the former president. >> it is a interesting question, ayman, and somebody like allen weisselberg and an entity like the trump organization. and with allen weisselberg, with the loss amount, it is a small amount of jail t...

>> the sentencing guidelines probation is 6-month, the war was lost for the prosecution in terms of any harsh sentence, when probation told them the sentencing guidelines, the loss amount was nothing, that is a huge factors that drives white-collar cases and once you get to 0 to 6 and the guidelines anything goes. >> if i am one of the parents awaiting sentencing or if i am lori laughlin who pled not guilty, mia a little nervous after seeing this? >> i don't know that you are more nervous, you get a sense of certainty where this is going to. there are different defendants and administrators hi...