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Against the terrorists? and ultimately they were able to whittle away and chip away at kerry, a veteran in the vietnam war, of whether he was going to be tough enough on terrorism and sort of undermine his choices about the iraq war. and i think it was -- you know, i remember bush saying that he ran into a guy who said, there's something about the massachusetts liberal that has a good ring to it. i mean, that basically was the campaign. >> i remember that poll, david, and it blew me away when it said basically they didn't trust kerry to protect the country. and that's the -- >> and then bin la...

Who's going to be tougher against the terrorists? and ultimately they were able to whittle away and chip away kerry, a veteran in the vietnam war, of whether he was going to be tough enough on terrorism and sort of undermined his choices about the iraq war. and i think it was -- you know, i remember bush saying that he ran into a guy who said, there's something about the massachusetts liberal that has a good ring to it. i mean, that basically was the campaign. >> i remember that poll, david, and it blew me away when it said basically they didn't trust kerry to protect the country. and that's t...

The presidential level? jerry told me in '80 that people believed everything bad about reagan, but they didn't think carter was up to the job. >> it worked with dukakis and it worked with kerry. >> it worked in 2004? how did it work? >> basically, the choice was, who's going to keep you stronger? who's going to keep you safe? who's going to be tougher against the terrorists? and ultimately they were able to whittle away and chip away kerry, a veteran in the vietnam war, of whether he was going to be tough enough on terrorism and sort of undermined his choices about the iraq war. and i think it...

President's job is to beat the hell out of the alternative so you have enough reasonable doubt -- >> but does that ever work at the presidential level? jerry told me in '80 that people believed everything bad about reagan, but they didn't think carter was up to the job. >> it worked with dukakis and it worked with kerry. >> it worked in 2004? how did it work? >> basically, the choice was, who's going to keep you stronger? who's going to keep you safe? who's going to be tougher against the terrorists? and ultimately they were able to whittle away and chip away kerry, a veteran in the vietnam wa...

>> ted rowlands was inside the courtroom when that audio was played. ted, it was stunning to hear. i can't imagine what the reaction was like inside the courtroom where michael jacks jackson's family was attending. >> reporter: to be honest, drew, i was not inside the courtroom during that audio, but i think anybody who heard it was shocked. and the prosecutors used it for one reason, to show that dr. conrad murray knew what he was doing to michael jackson, knew the drugs he was administering to michael jackson had this type of effect. they got that recording from murray's own cell p...