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Controversial as possible. >> you win. >> i don't know if -- i don't know how this is going to go now that we're showing this. i was starting out, i had never done anything before, and i knew that if i did something that was like normal, you know, people would go oh, there's a normal cookbook. i get normal comicbooks from hundreds of other people. so "battle pope" seemed like a concept. if someone hears "battle pope" they would want to find out what it's about. so it got me some notoriety. >> life lessons there? >> yeah, i mean, maybe a little bit. with "battle pope" especially, i wanted to do...

Them. like we need a fence around the house, let'suild a fence. >> even if people don't read comic books, they know marvel. what was your experience like in that world? >> it was tough for me, even from the beginning, just because i came from publishing my own comics. and so going to marvel and writing other comics for them, like being a work for hire kind of thing, yeah, i found it frustrating, because i felt like they were doing things wrong and when i would tell them, they didn't appreciate that. i think you should be doing, this and i would be like, what are you doing? so i was at marvel f...

Horrible job all day long. then go home and work again. so i decided i'm going to quit and make a go at this. i was going massively in debt, like funding everything on credit cards and i didn't want to tell my parents like oh, yeah, i'm quitting my job and doing this comic thing and it's probably not going to work out and i'm racking up crazy amounts of debt. it was like going to college but not going to college. i had college-level debt. i just didn't want them to worry. so my mother called kentucky lighting one time and they were like, yeah, he doesn't work her. he hasn't worked here for alm...

Like after i had been publishing maybe two years. i sat in the lobby and i got the application and i remember thinking, this looks terrible. i don't want to do this. i'll just go starve. so i left. but i was in the physical place trying to put in an application, and i decided not to. and then, i don't know, six months later i started getting work writing for other people and i was able to keep going. >> people around you take it seriously? family and friends? >> well, my family didn't know. i didn't tell them for like -- until i started making money, i hadn't told them i quit my job. so i work...

Must have learned something from them. like we need a fence around the house, let's build a fence. >> even if people don't read comic books, they know marvel. what was your experience like in that world? >> it was tough for me, even from the beginning, just because i came from publishing my own comics. and so going to marvel and writing other comics for them, like being a work for hire kind of thing, yeah, i found it frustrating, because i felt like they were doing things wrong and when i would tell them, they didn't appreciate that. i think you should be doing, this and i would be like, what ...