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Use and prices them out of the market. so until we get prices that are able to flow, plans that people can tailor to their own circumstances, you are not going to see this market function properly. arthel: that's your idea, tailored healthcare, your idea fixing the problem. nothing's a perfect plan of course. if you wouldn't mind, there's got to be some sort of bumps in the road on that plan. what do you think they are? >> no, no, we had high risk pools, 138 billion dollars of invisible high risk pools. we had a refundable tax credit for a safety net. and we returned to the states the ability ...

Version as well. where do you stand on that? it seems like this $8 billion that's been set aside, is that you have? is that a real figure? >> the $8 billion is not enough, it's not a real figure but it joins $130 billion that was already there. let me give a hat tip to gary palmer from alabama who looked at the system and understood the vast bulk of costs are driven by a fraction of the population. we have a duty to ensure even folks with pre-existing conditions can get care but if you create high-risk pools and finance those high-risk pools and let the majority of the market function independ...

This is going to go to the core of confidence paul brought up earlier. investors have been through a lot. the financial crisis, the flash crash. they're nervous. they don't that sort of full faith in market function, i think, they used to. so when something like this happens, officials are very aware of that so they don't want to have a false open. they need to test the entire system with all of the participants first before they reopen. so i have a feeling even if they've identified it, that's why it's taking so long. they want to have all the boxes checked before they open for trading. >> ra...

Portland but there is a sense when you talk about we can't expand the campus unless we make sure that everyone at uva is having a classic experience. in a country of 300 million people where we're not doing a very good job overall, and, yes, our universities are the enhave toif world but we're not doing welly moving larger and larger numbers through the system. aren't there questions to be raised about whether d leave us alone, we're doing great job, we've got our nose in the books and that's how it should be, and by the way we can't add new students unless we build 16 new dorms. >> amd thirg ...

Various ways, it takes a little more effort to try to allow people to do what they could normally do. jenna: so you're saying in this instance the government is actually helping the market function like a private market? is that what i'm hearing hearinm you? >> >> well, yeah. the government's just trying to enable people to refinance at the rates as they are out in the market. it's not a subsidy, and it's not any special government program of that form. it's just trying to allow the market to work as it would normally work if it were a market. i mean, the gses, fannie and freddie, the problems...