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Pierre on sunday. monday, he comes out with a different version. but even this idea of saying don't worry about the nr an, we'll take them on. i remember in the immigration meeting with senators saying, you know, i'll take the heat for you. don't worry, i'll take the heat. then the heat started to come and all of a sudden he wasn't so interested in bipartisan ideas anymore. i see a lot of parallels between that. i do not foresee a big battle between the president and the nra at this point. i think maybe he's trying to, you know, to look like he's willing to put up a fight and trying to encoura...

Trump's deputy campaign manager and is a fox news contributor. and mark penn, former presidential pollster and advisor to bill and hillary clinton. welcome, good to see both of you today. let me start with you, mark. the critics that were cited in trace gallagher's piece who say that they are shocked that the democrats gave in so quickly on this idea that they wanted to go to the mat for. >> i think in the end democrats cannot hear with a nice win. i think they raised the profile of the daca issue so that it has to be on the table now, it can't be pushed down or ignored. i think that's a good ...

>> no, it's not. it's about principle. it is about an ideal and a set of ideas that you fundamentally believe in and that you're prepared to go to the mat for. yeah, we know charging up that hill we're going to get slaughtered, we're going to get caught between the cross-fires, we get that, but the principle is charging up the hill to make the stand on the idea that what we believe has value, it has value not just politically to us but to the country as a whole. and i think that's a lot of the frustration that conservatives have. look, you're talking about a group of people who over the last 3...

The basic reality of math and votes, isn't it? >> no, it's not. it's about principle. it is about an ideal and a set of ideas that you fundamentally believe in and that you're prepared to go to the mat for. yeah, we know charging up that hill we're going to get slaughtered, we're going to get caught between the cross-fires, we get that, but the principle is charging up the hill to make the stand on the idea that what we believe has value, it has value not just politically to us but to the country as a whole. and i think that's a lot of the frustration that conservatives have. look, you're talk...

Will go back. like the old john wayne movie, don't apologize, shows sign of weakness. not going to apologize or back track, dead set on following through. >> believe it happened or saving face? >> did it happen? it didn't happen. >> does he truly believe it happen or is he saving face? >> i'm not sure what donald trump believes but fact he's willing to make not only himself but entire administration and spokespeople let them look absolutely ridiculous over these -- which are seemingly look like false claims is really baffling to me. so many more pressing things that donald trump can go to the ...