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Congressman perry today but basically saying, look, we've been trying to work on things. kevin mccarthy hasn't been here until the 11th hour. what more are you hearing out of this meeting? it doesn't sound like certainly this mind was changed, what we're hearing right there. >> kevin mccarthy has a serious math problem as we head into the vote for the next speaker and the house could not govern until they elect a next speaker and the republicans have indicated they have not changed. bob good told me nothing has changed, andy biggs who is an alternative to kevin mccarthy to deny him the necessa...

Congressman david jolly, and joyce vance, a former u.s. attorney who is now professor at the university of alabama law school. both david and joyce are also msnbc contributors. thank you all for being with us. garrett, want to start with you here. what does this letter potentially mean for kevin mccarthy's path to get the votes he need to become speaker? >> he's going in the wrong direction. the nine signatoies are in addition to the five republicans who have already come out and called -- calling them the never kevin caucus. the five house republicans who said they're hard-nosed, now add this...

Moment, mccarthy is still short votes and even some allies see mccarthy's math problem as getting worse despite weeks and weeks of concessions to republican critics. sunday, yesterday, mccarthy made even more concessions that would weaken the speaker's powers and he signed the letter details those concessions this way. kevin mccarthy speaker designate. immediate response descension and mockery. nine republicans a mix of incoming members and sitting, not enough and more than nine gop holdouts at this hour. if every eligible vote is cast mccarthy can only afford to lose four. you get the math at...

Deny him the speakership. he can only afford to lose four votes on the house floor tomorrow. there are an additional nine members who have other concerns who are not sold on mccarthy, and are willing to talk to him further, but now it is very clear. he has a math problem and he needs to figure out how to resolve that. otherwise the house could see something we have not seen since 1923 when the speaker was elected after nine ballots, something that took multiple days. can that happen again tomorrow? major questions. republicans are trying to figure out how to come to power and who is going to l...

Republicans to the break. >> he's part of the swamp cartel. i think you'll see on the second ballot increasing number of meshes vote for what is a true -- a true candidate to represent conservative sent of the conference. >> straight up to capitol hill and cnn lauren fox is there. wow. the math problem for kevin mccarthy. better? worse? same? >> reporter: exact same place. in fact, just got off the phone with one republican, ralph norman, who told me he is still a no on kevin mccarthy. was one of those five never kevin votes who is saying this morning that he still has not seen enough from mcc...