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That "vice" was the media equivalent of putting gold lettering on crumby condos which i think was a little too critical of it. but shane is -- has been out there kind of selling something, and i think to a certain degree, he believes it. like, and there's in some way in which "vice" has produced great things and has fulfilled what it has set out to do in certain ways, but ultimately you have to kind of deliver on the promises that you make. and it has to be more than just a story you're telling. >> so i guess the point is, selling this hard partying, edgy brand, getting advertisers to come on ...

Look, we've ceded control to media equivalent of professional wrestlers. there's george, the animal steel. he just passed today. i say it's time to take the debate back. tweet me at @smerconish. i'll read some live during the course of this program. joining me now, ronald brownstein who was editor of the national journal and now senior editor of the atlantic. a fellow at the university of pennsylvania who earned his ph.d. with a dissertation on talk radio and michelle bernard, president of the bernard center. ron, i was quoting a lot of your data from the national journal days and, you know, i...

Not what the incumbents do. it's what the challenger. the put with the nuts. whatever it is the shut with the butt. not incumbent presidents this late in the campaign and, of course, it's an exercise in futility because they already know these people that will already lean obama they know he is not going to -- >> bill: i don't know what he thinks he is going to gain. the people who like mtv and that was a live interview anyway who are locked in on that they are going to vote for barack obama anyway i don't know what he is wasting his time in there. he could call sway on the phone. he doesn't h...

Not what the incumbents do. it's what the challenger. the put with the nuts. whatever it is the shut with the butt. not incumbent presidents this late in the campaign and, of course, it's an exercise in futility because they already know these people that will already lean obama they know he is not going to -- >> bill: i don't know what he thinks he is going to gain. the people who like mtv and that was a live interview anyway who are locked in on that they are going to vote for barack obama anyway i don't know what he is wasting his time in there. he could call sway on the phone. he doesn't h...

Not what the incumbents do. it's what the challenger. the put with the nuts. whatever it is the shut with the butt. not incumbent presidents this late in the campaign and, of course, it's an exercise in futility because they already know these people that will already lean obama they know he is not going to -- >> bill: i don't know what he thinks he is going to gain. the people who like mtv and that was a live interview anyway who are locked in on that they are going to vote for barack obama anyway i don't know what he is wasting his time in there. he could call sway on the phone. he doesn't h...